I spent a lot of years in Catholic schools and I don't recall ever being in a position where a priest could have done anything inappropriate with an altar boy. In high school, the principal (a priest) ran off with a nun and got married, but they were both adults. I think the OJ Simpson case exposes a flaw in the US legal system. Criminal law is intended to punish deliberate acts of injury to another person. Civil law deals with negligence resulting in harm. Right or wrong, Simpson was acquitted of stabbing two people to death. How could he then be charged in a civil court. Nicole and Goldman did not die by accident or by negligence on anyone's part. If Simpson was not guilty of murder, then he was not guilty of anything.

Patrick: Please read footnote [2]; it answers your question of how Simpson could quite logically have received different verdicts in the two cases.
But to clarify, "murder" is a criminal term, and "wrongful death" (by any negligent OR deliberate act) is the term used in civil trials. He was not found "guilty"; he was found "liable". All of this is in the footnote, which is why the footnote is there.
And civil law most certainly can deal with deliberate, not negligent, behavior. Example: Bernie Madoff being sued by his victims. Madoff acted deliberately. Millions more examples.

I'm happy that you were not a victim. That doesn't mean that no one else was. Actually, a number of priests have already "confessed", so to speak, and upper echelon members have admitted to covering it up. And of course, the abuse could have taken place outside of a Catholic school - in a Church, someone's home, back seat of a car, etc.

Per the intro, please don't take the parody as a slur on your faith, but only as a slur on those who abused positions of trust and authority. ... and btw,, "I don't recall ever being in a position...." was probably not the best choice of words. ;) (Did *you* vote 115?) Cheers.

You could take "position" either way. I hadn't thought of that. Either way, no hanky-panky from any padre I ever knew. I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me the purpose of criminal law is to punish the perpetrator, while civil law is to try to compensate the victim. Of course both functions can be in operation at the same time, as in the Madoff case. Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman were deliberately chopped up with a knife. If OJ was not guilty of chopping them, then he didn't (in the eyes of the law) kill them. Holding him liable in this instance seems to me to be an end run around double jeopardy. If someone leaves a swimming pool unguarded and a child drowns, their may be both criminal and civil liability, even if the owner of the pool didn't hold the child under water. If Ron and Nicole had fallen down the steps at OJ's house, and it wasn't proven he pushed them, he might still be liable for failing to fix a broken step or leaving an obstacle, etc. I never vote anything but 555.

Differences aside, you put that awful old song to good use. The Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler. I won't forgive them for that.

When I was in school, the teacher was quick to point out every famous explorer, inventor, king, etc who was a Catholic. I didn't learn, until I was past college, while research on my own, just what faith Hitler was baptized into. Some say he modeled the SS on the Jesuit order of priests. Wasn't Himmler a Catholic, too? It's never too late. If the Church can lift the excommunication on Galileo, it can certainly go back and (figuratively) kick Hitler in the gonad(s).

Putting ya even higher on the altar for this one, Mr. Turtle. And let me make this perfectly clear, I'm quite sure Nancy never saw *this* coming! Great job with a classic OS, helpin; us makin' fun sense of all this nun'sense!

There's "sin" in Sinatra. Say 5 "hail Marys," 5 "Aves," and 5 "Our Fathers."

Of course you didn't learn that in school - unless you went to Schul. Also, immediately after Hitler commited suicide it was made known publicly and the church held requeum masses for him.

Hitler-mentioners: Never expected to see the HItler card played here! Never thought of him that way, and various sources in Wikipedia agree:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_hitler#Religious_viewsb
"Hitler had a general plan, even before the rise of the Nazis to power, to destroy Christianity within the Reich. The leader of the Hitler Youth stated "the destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the National Socialist movement" from the start, but "considerations of expedience made it impossible" publicly to express this extreme position. His intention was to wait until the war was over to destroy the influence of Christianity.
          "Hitler once stated, 'We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany' "

2Eagle: Thanks - are you forgiving them for the present scandal? Seems the house-cleaning, prosecutions, compensation to victims, and true repentance by both the guilty and the Church would be called for. Thanks for v/c.

The Ghost of Frank: Is that as in "Anne" Frank? (heh! - but it fits!) ... no, doubt most recording artists can foresee what we'll do to their works, heh! Thanks for altaring the status and the v/c!

John Barry: LOL @ "sin" joke! Thanks for v/c.

@Eagle Redux: So, Catholic schools never teach of non-Catholic scientists, etc. ? Einstein? Jonas Salk, inventor of the first effective polio vaccine? Curious... Holding a mass for Hitler? A mass celebration of ridding the world of this psycho, maybe. Interesting.

That link to WP shouldn't have the "b" on the end, or it won't work. Darn flippers...

Patrick: One more try, in numbers: Let's say that the evidence was 95% in favor of OJ's guilt . (5% being, maybe, the glove that didn't fit, and the express racist views of one of the investigating officers, for the sake of argument.)
Under criminal law, the jury *must* acquit, because of the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard. 5% chance of innocence is enough to acquit.

In a civil trial, you need to be only 51% right. So the 95% evidence of OJ's wrongful doings is more than ample for the jury to hold him civilly liable for his actions.

It's made clear in law that this is *not* double jeopardy. Read the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution:

"... nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;...

A civil trial does not put one's life at risk (no capital punishment or life imprisonment), nor limb (freedom), only monetary damages. In fact, it's been held that one can be tried twice - or more - *criminally*, i .e., once in a State court, and once in Federal.

Let's go back to Madoff again. He broke US Securities laws, and therefore can be tried in US Federal courts. In addition, he violated the laws against fraud in every state in which his victims resided, so each of those States has a case against him, *on behalf of his victims in that State*. .. of course, they'd all be fighting over which prison to put him in first, and he'll be long dead before he could serve all of the sentences.

But these trials are still for the purpose of *imprisoning* him, although restitution can be part of a sentence, especially in plea bargaining. But each individual victim has the right to sue him for however much they lost due to his fraudulent, DELIBERATE, NOT NEGLIGENT, actions, to try to recover their monetary losses, lawyer's fees, costs, and perhaps punitive (exemplary) damages, which are designed to act as a deterrent to others of like mind.

So, chopping up someone with a knife is a "tort" (civil wrong). as well as a crime. Civil suits are *not* restricted to negligence (see Madoff). IMHO, OJ *did* chop them up criminally, but the fact that *the prosecution failed to exclude every reasonable doubt* does NOT prevent a civil jury from finding that the preponderance of the evidence showed that Ron and Nicole died wrongfully, and the wrongful acts of OJ were the proximate cause of their deaths.

I was just curious about the vote. I've seen plenty of 111s, as per last Friday's Unabomber parody, and occasionally 511, 512, or 513 by one who recognizes good pacing while hating the song, but never 115. Maybe someone mis-clicked.

Thanks for the 555.

How sad that these stories just keep coming out. :(

Vatican Rags: Last I saw, His Holiness was dressed pretty fine, not exactly what one would call "rags", lol. ;-)
          As per intro, not "ragging" on any one denomination, thought predation situation is indeed an abomination of degradation and damnation. Guess they'll keep coming out until the thorough housecleaning called for in this song is complete. Thanks for v/c.

Hellacious substitutions.

Ah, enjoyed this OS lots, as well as your satire, TT. I shudder at the thought of 'descending quarter tones as miscreants descend to the underworld part!' And interesting to tie the subject with pedophilia, especially at 'butts not made for groping part'. To change the subject, In the Philippines, the children who went to Catholic school run by nuns would receive punishment by kneeling in the mongo (hard beans that are sharp as pins sometimes) in order to atone for their sins. That should also go for pedophiles as well. Great job. May you be blessed and baptized with 555's!

John Jenkins: LOL! -- good one. Thanks, JJ.

Christie Marie M: I'm sure that they'll be punished, some way, some day... Thanks for the blessings and baptismal, and may you be blessed as well for your kind votes and comments!

Upon learning of Hitler's death, Ireland's Taoiseach, Eamon de Valera went to the German Embassy in Dublin to express his condolences. In Catholic schools we did learn of important individuals of all backgrounds. But the history books used bore the imprimatur of the Church and if a prominent individual (at least of a positive influence) were Catholic, that fact was duly noted. Hitler had long-range plans to eliminate Christianity, but, like smoking, that was a habit too deeply ingrained to start with, when he had more immediate destruction to tend to first. Perhaps if he had tried to take the German people's faith and smokes away first, they might have laughed him out of town or locked him up where he could do no further harm.

Lord Rope-A-Pope, as a CatLick school girl I am indeed well aware of the many jokes & humor that we as Catlickers have brought upon ourselves . . .

Patrick: Not to mention the daily injections with methamphetamine, to keep up those high-energy public appearances - which may have worsened his megalomania, paranoia, and judgment toward the end -- thank goodness for the latter.
          Per the movie, "The Longest Day", Der F. took a sleeping pill the night before D-Day, with strict orders not to disturb him. (Who would?) ... which meant that the Panzer troops that he *personally* held in reserve could not be sent to Normandy. Could have changed history. ...
          Thank goodness it didn't play out the other way, but would have been nice if your idea - take the smokes and faith, and they rebel -- had happened instead. Thanks for the further enlightenment on what seem to be curiously-unenlightened higher-ups in the Church. (Don't Catholics accept the Ten Commandments, especially the one about not committing murder? .. rhetorical question.)

LilCatLicker: Unfortunately, there's nothing funny about this situation, but thanks for the v/c. Funny impression of LCC, but not *quite* on the money. ;-) Thanks for the v/c and the puns.

Just out of curiosity, did they note the negative ones, like the Spanish Inquisition? .. Or the Arian Heresy, which cost some intra-Church lives and excommunications? ... just askin', truly curious.
          FWIW, our public school history books almost totally ignore the great science coming out of Persia (Iraq, Iran) during the West's Dark and Middle Ages. Censorship and bias everywhere, not just in one faith or nation.
http://www.amiright.com/parody/60s/dustyspringfield47.shtml
, footnote #6. (No need to read the song or the whole textbook-notes, although who am I to stop you?)

We did learn about the Reformation and the scandals involving the sale of indulgences. The personal crimes of the popes were not mentioned, at least not in elementary school. We were taught that the Arabs preserved much of the scholarship of the Classical World during the European Dark Ages, and that they were discovered when the Crusaders went to "liberate" the Holy Lands. Don't recall hearing about the Spanish Inquisition or the Heresies. Other than that Joan of Arc was burned for being a heretic. I have come across references to a man being executed for heresy in Spain in 1826! I believe his name was Cayetano Raspall. Hanged or garroted ( a really nasty method of execution used as late as the 1970's, see ugly youtube video) for changing a word in a prayer he recited in a school classroom, failing to acknowledge the Mother of God or something trivial. You have research sources I envy. Maybe you can learn more. I am trying to do something with "American Pie". Not going to be easy, that's a seven-minute song. But I need a challenge every now and then.

Patrick: Envy? Wikipedia has an excellent article on "Science and technology in Iran", well-sourced to the originals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_in_iran#Ancient_technology_in_Persia
and then click on each of the sub-headings.

These scholars did far more than "preserve" the Classical knowledge; they enlarged it immensely. (I guess you read the footnote referred to in the previous message.)

Spanish Inquisition started in 1478 and wasn't officially abolished for more than 350 years - 1838, so your story of hanging for heresy in 1826 is not surprising. As ugly as garroting was, it was considered an act of mercy, because the alternative was being burned alive, as Joan was.

The purpose was to prosecute Protestants, Jews, and those who did not hold strictly to the official line of the Church. Torture and gruesome death were used. Some subjects were tried in absentia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_inquisition

Edward Gibbon's "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", written in the late 1700's, is the definitive work on the title topic, and includes the rise of Christianity (the term "Catholic" doesn't seem to appear until about a hundred years after Jesus) and the many power-struggles within the Church. Gibbon describes the Arian heresy, and graphically describes priests on one side torturing nuns on the other side, including sexual torture. WP doesn't go into that much detail. It's a loooong book, but you could just read the part around 300-380 A.D. for that info.

I suppose if I were running the parochial schools, I'd not tell of these things either. It was clear at other TT and FG/TT parodies, with their extensive footnotes, that your parochial education was far superior to that of US public schools in the academic area: math, science, US history, etc. Now all you have to do is fill in the blanks that those schools chose to leave out.

Still not knocking the religion per se; as per the intro, every group has its bad apples. However, receiving all of one's information from *any* one source is always risky. You seem open-minded enough to learn that imperfect humans, including those of your own faith, have always been imperfect, without feeling threatened or feeling that your faith has been threatened. It'll be a fascinating journey.

FWIW, TT has read the entire Bible, cover to cover, both Testaments - something very few self-identified Christians can claim; I've never heard one say that. Fascinating book. Being as widely read as possible gives one a perspective on the world, and also, lots of references for parodies. ;-) Cheers.

http://www.amiright.com/parody/80s/bonnietyler44.shtml
was a challenge that TT set for himself, a rather difficult one, with some sense of accomplishment when done. FWIW, your name is plugged there, and I don't believe you've seen it.

Looking forward to your Pie - take your time and don't rush it. TT's first gelled slowly over about five months - just jotting down lines as they came to me in, say, the grocery store, e. g. After that, it's like getting pickles out of a jar -- once you get the first, the rest come more easily; The song rhyme scheme and meter is already in your head, which is why it's fun to "Riff three times on the same song".
http://www.amiright.com/parody/70s/tonyorlandoanddawn27.shtml
Even AP gets "a little" easier after you've done it once or twice. Looking forward to yours, whenever. GL!

A (belated) salute for a splendid TTreatment of a JAB mainstay topic. WTF - Watch That Frock! ;D

Old Man Ribber: DK this was a JAB mainstay, as the priests JAB at the kids, but thanks for v/c, and LOL @ the acronym! :-D

Well put.. one of those "not exactly funny, but worthy of 5s anyway" parodies. Some interesting comments, especially thanks for the explanation of some of the finer points of US law (though that wiki page on ol' Adolf's wanting the "destruction of Christianity" smacks of revisionism, in that he certainly never behaved that way when in power.. but then, it wouldn't be the first time that Christians have tried changing the history books)

Phil Alexander: "The common law of England" applied in the new country until its own superseding laws were passed, which in some cases, wasn't for a couple of hundred years. In the latter 1900s, some States enacted statutes specifically disclaiming said Common Law, and supplying replacements. Nonetheless, the British legal system left its heritage on the US, until States and Federal government legislated their own. Thanks for taking the trip over, and for v/c.